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Jump in, the water is perfect:Enabling large migrations.
Alexandro Colorado
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[jza_] 1. Welcome everybody, I am Alexandro Colorado, Co-Lead of the OpenOffice.org Espanol (Spanish) project. To tell you a little bit about the Spanish community, it has been very consistant on the cooperation and the site has been on a continous improvement.
[jza_] One of the first documents was driven by Luis E. Velasquez who has a consulting business in Colombia and has succesfully migrated several organizations to OpenOffice.org
[jza_] Big thanks to E. Velasquez
[jza_] btw
[jza_] Luis was basically who brought the information to this presentation. Migrating an estimate of 1300 clients over the pass 3 years to OOo, he has become one of the most important contributors when it comes to business deployments of OOo.
[jza_] Luis also view the value that came out of the Novell document describing novells own migration. He brought it to me and we start producing the new business/organization area within OpenOffice.org
[jza_] so slide #2
[jza_] So first thing is understanding the goals of a company
[jza_] Companies want things to be quick and efficient
[jza_] if you are going to deliver a solution make it so that the company is enthusiastic about it, cost cutting values is important but that won't make anyone (away from the financial department) happy really
[jza_] so gathering 'quick victories' is a good way to start. Areas like the iT department are easy to train and adoption rate is high enough.
[jza_] Away fromt he IT dept. you can find people who might not have 'a solution yet' (common in Latin America where secretaries are still on typewriters)
[jza_] They would be keen to have a computer and won't see a migration barrier adopting OpenOffice.org
[jza_] Actually secretaries is a BIG part of the migration. In organizations everyone want's to convince the CEO or the high officer
[jza_] but is really on the ground level where the actuall office suite is part of the core of the everyday work.
[jza_] If you train a secretary their effect on the organization is even greater than if you train a high officier.
[jza_] Most organizations are self taught, they learn how to use an office suite from the guy on the other office
[jza_] So we have a competitive advantage since -- well -- we are all about self teaching and collaboration. So we can provide a scheme to enforce this collaborative knowledge
[jza_] this is one of the things Novell did with the Open Desktop Initiative -- next slide --
[jza_] the Open desktop Initiative or ODI is what novell did to enforce the collaboration within the company
[jza_] pocket of members will become the 'lead' which will push others to adopt the office suite giving a ground level support
[jza_] having a site on the intranet also help since shy users might get the support without having to ask another employee
[jza_] ODI was less intrusive so people that need it have options deliver with their needs
[jza_] So ODI was a strategy that really hug all this different strategies
[jza_] we got the direct support (chat, instant message, voice over IP)
[jza_] we got a documentation repository (Manuals, tutorials, knowledge base)
[jza_] and the on-site support
[jza_] -- next slide --
[jza_] We should remember that this is all about the user
[jza_] so we should take special care about user specific needs
[jza_] a good tool to address this needs is to do a profiling of users based on their general IT knowledge, their position within the company and their common needs
[jza_] Also we might want to priorize the value of a certain department adopting the software right away, we don't make the user feel we are forcing them but more like helping them
[jza_] users that a migration at this point would affect their business at that moment or that they are using x or y tool on excel that is fundamental and no replacement in OOo should take the migration on a slower pace
[jza_] finally is costumization, when costumization will help users take the changes on a more digestive way
[jza_] things like the UI
[jza_] the common options or configuration
[jza_] (i.e. install with the spanish dictionaries)
[jza_] -- next slide --
[jza_] Novell in this area was consious of their users, and the most important thing is to let them know the progress and they are getting constant feedback
[jza_] one thing was generating reports on the status of the migration through an announcement mailing list
[jza_] and even taking into account the external community
[jza_] this is very important and wise since it educates the employees of the open source benefits that might not be very tangible, like the community support
[jza_] -- next slide --
[jza_] so we have a combination of chanels that provide a very positive enviroment for a good migration
[jza_] users have the information/feedback, the on-time support and the Emotional motivation of doing this
[jza_] this enviroment greatly reduce the resistance to change
[jza_] so once we have the enviroment we want to upgrade our strategies, the core one being the support
[jza_] -- next slide --
[jza_] Here is a more indepth look at Novell's Open Desktop Initiative which mentions what I said earlier
[jza_] a combination of communication channels through remote-support, on-site support, documentation, etc.
[jza_] strategies might vary greatly, users in latin america for example are more keen on on-site support
[jza_] so an used strategy in one company was to hire school students looking for community service
[jza_] they were trained and their job was making sure that the company transform their resources (documents, macros) to an OOo compatible enviroment within the office
[jza_] Another which lead us to the next slide
[jza_] -- next slide --
[jza_] For companies that have make this change they highlight key tips on what to do/avoid during a migration
[jza_] The first one is to automatize the most possible things, so either generating or migrating templates to OpenOffice.org native file format, is a good idea.
[jza_] 2nd tip is avoid changing the format several times, since it will break the document
[jza_] 3rd and last tip is also a very important one and is build policies of use of file formats
[jza_] Novell's policy was primarily use the OOo standard document file format
[jza_] the other step was for the organization to be aware of this position and encourage people to use PDF when they have to interact with outside companies
[jza_] and only work with .doc when is about making document changes
[jza_] alternativelly, in cases in latin america .doc files were replaced with RTF for external offices
[jza_] -- next slide --
[jza_] So now we have a positive enviroment for a migration, a technical tips and advices on support, but to actually make sense for people in general is when you are providing a value added.
[jza_] Exploiting OpenOffice.org XML capabilities can get back massive opportunities to create tools and integrate systems
[jza_] XML is an extremely well structure language, and if information is correclty structure, then it can be manage
[jza_] integrating OOo with the backend is what have make a lot of business not just migrate but also advance on their OpenOffice.org strategy from a productivity point of view
[jza_] Case in Latin America again, was integrating the OpenOffice.org documents to their intranet web application and make users provide content automatically
[jza_] (they had Zope on their intranet)
[jza_] Now we are facing a new version of OpenOffice.org which contains Open Documents and this also bring new benefits to adopting the suite
[jza_] not just that but from a development point of view the Package Manager can also be a good start to migrate all the plug-ins and macros which make macro-dependant companies to jump to this platform which a relative small development
[jza_] -- next slide --
[jza_] Well I just wish you can all start a Happy Migration to OOo
[jza_] Q&A
[jza_] Questions???
[DanielC] I have one.f
[jza_] go ahead
[DanielC] At the Unviersity of Toronto we had a support mailingl ist.
[DanielC] list
[DanielC] People who had questions could ask them there, without bothering the sysadmin
[DanielC] the idea was that regular faculty would join the list
[DanielC] I mean, faculty who were more proficient with the software.
[DanielC] Kind of like the users list at OOo.
[DanielC] It worked well for us. :-)
[DanielC] Okay, I guess that wasn't a "question". It was an "idea" :-)
[jza_] yes mailing lists and newsgroups are a good tools, maybe is cultural but a lot of people felt shy of asking questions that the rest of the university might see
[jza_] they see it as recognizing their ignorance or something, so private options were always preffered
[DanielC] ok
[jza_] but then again, this was a cultural difference
[jza_] but mailing list could work also
[jza_] is more channels of communications
[jza_] *s
[DanielC] They had the convenience of being right in your office. You didn't have to leave to go find someone who might help.
[AietKolkhi] jza_: Thanks for the interesting conference. I have a question too, if I may
[jza_] sure
[AietKolkhi] Thanks. When providing support to governmential bodies and commercial companies,
[AietKolkhi] it is a better practice to create a small support group
[silver81] Hi jza : Thanks for the conference, Migration its done for our company since 2 years, i think that there is missing something in Novell Migration : the link between with past and present.
[AietKolkhi] or create a mailing list/forum/VoIP platform where anyone could participate frely?
[strilen] or one could combine instant messaging/e-mail between users and sysadmin and serve the solutions on the intranet. thereby both offering anonymity and practical advice.
[jza_] yes, this strategy has been used before, they train pocket groups within large organization and they become the SWOT team
[jza_] like I said depends on which support scheme they are more used to deal with, usually government bodies that have internal support have already develop a support infrastructure, emulating that infrastructure might speed up the company of using yours.
[southerncross_] it's a very good presentation
[southerncross_] I was an intern at Novell when they migrated towards OOo
[AietKolkhi] jza_: Thanks.
[CorNouws] Thanks for the explatation and nice slides. May I post a question from the Netherlands?
[jza_] silver81: one thing is anonimity, other one is just users want to know they have resources and those are easy to find, so a knowledge base also works out great.
[jza_] CorNouws: sure welcome.
[CorNouws] Thanks. Any experience on how people find their way in public (OOo) resources for FAQ, documentation a.s.o.?
[jza_] CorNouws: as a co-lead for the OpenOffice.org Espaniol, we get lots of direct mails to Richard Holt (other leader) and me. It is an issue that navigation in the OOo site is not as good as it could be so we need to provide an overal map on where to find what.
[southerncross_] CorNouws: finding ressources in the OOo web site is always an issue
[jza_] CorNouws: we have been working a lot on the navigation of the website since we want the articles and documents always remain visible
[DanielC] Indeed
[CorNouws] OK, I understand. I do see the value of getting people in company involved, but
[southerncross_] Cornouws: you can't imagine the volume of off list emails I have, for instance
[jza_] DHTML menu's and randomizer are things that we have been looking closely as a good solution to keep content always on, similar to google dashboards
[CorNouws] When you can use the already excisting recources, it save quite some efford. I do know it's not easy to find your way on the OOo-site, however, that mainly because of the huge huge contents!
[jza_] CorNouws: another strategy that we are currently doing, is pushing for satelite sites of OOo, currently within the spanish community we have a News site (www.escritorioya.org.ar) and a documentation site (superalumnos.net)
[jza_] CorNouws: fortunately most documentation are on a 'friendly' license so you can build your intranet documentation site with just a few emails and 'make over' on your intranet so it becomes easy
[southerncross_] CorNouws: yes, of course, but people are sometimes even afraid of the OOo site because they think it's for the geeks
[jza_] --- for your users
[CorNouws] So supporting a migrating company, can be do by offring them a customized portal to the useful public OOo-recources..
[DanielC] That sounds like a good idea.
[DanielC] Make a portal that fits /your/ situation.
[CorNouws] jza: www.escritorioya.org.ar does not see correct
[AietKolkhi] I agree. Maybe it would also be nice to have the ability to create more customized local xx.openofice.org sites
[silver81] jza_: anonimity ? sorry i do not understand ?!?! You know, companies works all togetherq, exemple, we receive files from Michelin, we must send files to very big companies and we must keep a complete compatibility. This is only possible with a "gateway" like WIN4LIN, i am very surprise that Novell dont speak about that (sorry my english is very, very bad).
[jza_] CorNouws: sorry is .com
[jza_] CorNouws: www.escritorioya.com.ar
[DanielC] CorNouws: http://oooauthors.org is a good resource for recent docs :-)
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Yes, I agree. Sadly, we have very little control of our DNS server.
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: I see.
[jza_] silver81: not quite sure of what you mean, for example this interaction can be profiled for example.
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Anything under 'openoffice.org' is limited to SourceCast, for good and ill.
[AietKolkhi] Just the possibility to include dynamically updated text would make a dramatic improvement
[jza_] silver81: there is the document that needs to be sent from Company A -> B
[southerncross_] silver81: don't bame me, but what company are you working for?
[jza_] silver81: then there are the doucments which need to be interchange A ->B and B -> A
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: I agree! It'd be great if we could have server-side processes. Things like PHP, Perl, etc.
[AietKolkhi] yes, or the best of them, python
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: But right now, if you want any of that, you have to use an external server :( That's what we're doing at oooauthors.org.
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: OOoAuthors uses Plone, which is written in Python :-)
[AietKolkhi] Is it possible to integrate external server content to xx.openoffice.org?
[jza_] silver81: if your position is the first one, then PDF is great, if it's the second one, then changing to a open standard might be a good solution (RTF, TXT, or even doc)
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Only under 'services.openoffice.org'
[AietKolkhi] Yes, I think of plone as a very good platform
[jza_] silver81: however, the key is to not change the docs back to sxw and then back to doc
[jza_] DanielC: I think that collabnet has some 'public' JSP services you can use, but they are not documented or public
[DanielC] jza_: Well, that's still not Perl, PHP or Python.
[jza_] DanielC: for example a menu can be include if you put it on a page caled 'menuXX.htm
[jza_] *called
[jza_] DanielC: no, but is dynamic and modular at least
[DanielC] ok
[jza_] great, any other question?
[CorNouws] a reply first: AietKolkhi: there are the local xx.openofice.org sites, for example the nl.openoffice.org. Good for the community and individuals, however not direct for company-support.
[khirano] jza_: when you say latin-america, you mean mainly mexico?
[AietKolkhi] So you suggest creating local community sites, like openorrife.nl?
[jza_] CorNouws: thats why we started rebuilding our company resources area, the difference is mainly the content of the documents thought
[jza_] khirano: no, I mean latin-america (and spain), most of the migration projects where done in Venezuela, Argentina, Spain and Colombia
[khirano] jza_: i see
[jza_] khirano: we only have 3 studies in Mexico and were not documented well enough
[CorNouws] jza_: any excange with OOoAutorhs for example?
[southerncross_] CorNouws, AietKolki: the community, as well as myself, are rather against creating sites bearing a "openoffice.xy" as a domain name. It really turns away people from the real community site
[jza_] CorNouws: yes we have oooauthors.org/es we just started
[southerncross_] but you can create sites like: "mycompanymigratestoopenoffice.com" ;-)
[jza_] CorNouws: we also will exchange documents between the es.openoffice.org and brasil pt-br.openoffice.org
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_: I see. Is there a sugegsted way one could create for a local comunity?
[jza_] southerncross_: yes, thats what associate sites do for us, we do have actually a certification site within the spanish project
[silver81] OK Ok ok !!!! Exemple many thanks to for going to explain to Michelin to use OOo format in the place off M$Office, so you will repeat it for all great rent vehicle, so you will do the same for all big trasport companies with thousand lorries and so on. A "gateway" is absolutly necessery, if not, you "have a dream " ;)
[southerncross_] I don't see why xy.openoffice.org isn't enough. But in case of a local company, really, as I said, mycompanymigratestoooo.com is good
[jza_] southerncross_: http://openoffice.123aprende.com/
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_: The only think lacking for me at xy.openoffice.org is the ability to include dynamic content
[southerncross_] aietkolkhi: I know. But so far I don't think that migrations to OOo have been hindered by that point
[southerncross_] jza: thanks, it's a very nice site
[khirano] jza_: who does on-site support?
[jza_] AietKolkhi: I think here is where the consulting firms come up, they can provide the landscape for the migration
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_: You are right. So you would recommend having all the local resources published at xy.openoffice.org and openoffice.xy having redirected to xy.openoffice.org, right?
[jza_] khirano: companies that work with OpenOffice.org
[southerncross_] jza: yes, consulting firms are usually the right players
[AietKolkhi] jza_: I see
[southerncross_] aietkolkhi: in fact, I would recommend not having openoffice.xy at all, but if you have it, yes, redirecting it to xy.openoffice.org is the right way
[CorNouws] jza, all: thanks for the info, experience, ideas. I did start a consulting for a year ago. Dedicated OOo and SO. So the chat was useful indeed.
[CorNouws] It's sunny outside here, going to find out where my kids are. Hope to meet again. Probably a presentation of an interesting Dutch migration case?
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_: Yes, I just mentioned openoffice.xy to avoid someone else creating a resource on it. I should not be advertised anywhere
[jza_] khirano: look at our company support page: http://es.openoffice.org/programa/cd.html
[AietKolkhi] just tp avoid what happened with openoffice.de and openoffice.nl
[southerncross_] aietkolki: oh, I see. Okay, that's a different case of course
[khirano] jza_: thanks for the link :)
[southerncross_] Aietkolkhi: if you can books such a domain name go ahead and protect yourself (and us)
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_: Yes, I will book it. And keep all the material/resources related to Georgian to ka.opeoffice.org
[AietKolkhi] ka.openoffice.org, I meant :-)
[southerncross_] aietkolkhi: sure. How is the KA porject doing?
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_: I have built a glossary development tool that enables users to suggest their own Georgian translations of OOo glossary of terms and
[AietKolkhi] also comment on others. it is located at http://gakartuleba.sapikhvno.org/glossary_en.php
[AietKolkhi] I expect the glosary work to be done within 2 weeks and we will start localizing the actual modules after that period
[khirano] jza_: what is your role in all that migration projects in latin america?
[AietKolkhi] There are some linguists, IT exteprts and translators participating
[southerncross_] ok
[southerncross_] good
[southerncross_] as usual, if you need some help, please don't hesitate to ask that on dev@native-lang
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_: Thank you, I will
[AietKolkhi] jza_: May I ask another question regarding the migration/support?
[jza_] AietKolkhi: yes please
[jza_] khirano: I am coordinator of the OpenOffice.org Espaniol project, and a lot of people and organizations come for support, migration, adoption, events, etc. I guess I have gotten a lot of experience from other people within the community.
[jza_] khirano: Personally I migrate 600 machines to linux while working for the goverment in Mexico
[khirano] jza_: I see. thanks.
[AietKolkhi] jza_: When helping a commercial company or governmential body to migrate, the commercial support groups will automatically need to switch to the new platform
[jza_] khirano: but this guys do a life out of support and migration for OOo (and free software) so i have gotten a lot of experience from them
[AietKolkhi] My question is wether to support such groups remain independent and commercial
[AietKolkhi] or have them integrate in the main support community, and if yes, should their services
[jza_] AietKolkhi: Yes is usually the ones that got a 'formal' trainning on the suite, like I said things vary a lot, since in Latin America, most people never get trainning on anything :S
[AietKolkhi] remain commercial or volunteer-based
[jza_] AietKolkhi: yes, this groups are within the company/organization, I think it should remain commercial
[AietKolkhi] jza_: And offer theese groups free training migratin support, correct? :-)
[jza_] AietKolkhi: usually this support is not exclusive (for example if you migrate to linux) so u support not just OOo but Mozilla, Linux, Gnome etc.
[jza_] a volunteer base on this perspective is optional but my guess is that is not stable enough
[jza_] at least for business levels
[jza_] for example if you got a mailing list, you ask 1 question, they respond you 2 or 3 days later
[jza_] on-site is well instant
[jza_] so there is definetly a value added there
[jza_] specially because you are triying to get work done ASAP
[AietKolkhi] jza_: Indeed. I am coordinating the l10n of the products you mentioned too. And due to volunteer bases, I a sometimes having problems finding people who will actively participate, everyone having a full-time job
[AietKolkhi] jza_: I see.
[AietKolkhi] jza_: And the commercial companies often need to have the issue solved instantly
[jza_] AietKolkhi: yes, but then again, companies do this things for a living so a lot of the issues might be repetitive
[jza_] and they have experience on solving them fast
[AietKolkhi] jza_: So these companies should also be supported in migration, right?
[jza_] jza_: depends on which companies are you talking to. Do you mean the service providers?
[AietKolkhi] jza_: the commercial companies providing rechnical support to various companies/governmential bodies
[jza_] Well they should have experience and competitive experts on these topics
[jza_] they should do QA on their processes
[AietKolkhi] jza_: I see. Thank you.
[jza_] I guess they do need some how of support themselves specially from the developers of the products
[jza_] they should be on the mailing list all the time, and some of them they do.
[khirano] jza_: you have done a lot of things in latin america, now what is the next step or perspective in latin america?
[AietKolkhi] southerncross_, DanielC: It might not be the best place to ask this, but having version 2.0 so close, would not it be nice if we could give the whole site a new, better look? Like, a slightly more user-friendly colors, smaller font sizes, etc. The look commercial companies and newbie users would expect from a well established and advertised commercial product. But, of course, keeping the OOo philosophy and style.. Do you think it could be interesting for
[southerncross_] sorry I've got to leave you for 5 minutes
[southerncross_] I'm back asap
[DanielC] AietKolkhi: Check the list archives for dev@website.openoffice.org
[jza_] khirano: well I am actually not even in latin america :)
[AietKolkhi] DanielC: Allright
[jza_] khirano: I am living in Romania right now :o
[khirano] jza_: yeh, right :)
[jza_] khirano: I have done the technology expo in Mexico late last year http://www.expolinux.org in Monterrey Mexico and this year we will launch 2 more
[jza_] khirano: today is the FLISOL which is the latinamerica installfest (up to 8 countries doing a linux installfest)
[jza_] khirano: I was the country manager for Mexico
[jza_] -- well actually I still am
[jza_] khirano: my perspective is that Latin-America should start unifiying on free software collaboration and once we do that, we will have the tools to actually build something great, Brasil already doing that
[jza_] khirano: adoption has come slow, but is comming and will eventually get there, which I think is important
[khirano] jza_: right, i agree :)
[jza_] khirano: as for me, hopefully next year I go to work to Tokyo :D
[khirano] jza_: sure, i was about to say that.
[jza_] Bitdefender is about to open the asian office in Japan, and I am triying to get that job :p
[khirano] jza_: when I establish a non profit organization, it should invite you to Japan
[khirano] jza_: get that job! :)
[khirano] in Japan almost no OOo migration :(
[jza_] :D I'll be happy
[jza_] khirano: when you going to invite Ian
[khirano] jza_: yep :)
[jza_] yeah he's here right now u know
[jza_] he told me he is intrigue by the OOo group in Japan, and pushing INGOT there
[khirano] jza_: right! INGOT! my NPO is planning to work with it.
[AietKolkhi] kza_, khirano: We will also be pushing INGOT in Georgian schools
[silver81] "southerncross_: silver81: don't bame me, but what company are you working for?" Groupe AYME (500 employees) 53 agencies in France; 100 pc to Linux in 1998, more in 2001, more in 2003 with OOo. To day, about 220 PC with Linux and near 70 using OOo and some servers for VPN, stats, and so on... Jean Louis
[khirano] AietKolkhi: great! :)
[khirano] AietKolkhi: let us learn each other :)
[southerncross_] silver81: oh, I see
[southerncross_] silver81 : forgive my ignorance, JL
[khirano] hey! jza and Ian will be very busy with travelling world :)
[AietKolkhi] khirano: I am Georgian Native-Lang project lead, and my name is Aiet Kolkhi :-) which community are you from?
[jza_] :D
[jza_] is an OOo World
[khirano] AietKolkhi: I am from Japanese NL :)
[ericb2] :-)
[ericb2] lgodar1 : ok
[AietKolkhi] khirano: great, nice to meet you :)
[khirano] AietKolkhi: nice to meet you, too :)
[khirano] DanielC: you should join jza and Ian! don't go to M$!
[DanielC] he he he
[DanielC] I'd love to travel as much as Ian and JZA do.
[silver81] Khirano: Yesterday Daniel win a silver fish from M$ on Marketing :)
[khirano] silver81: i know :) :)
[jza_] ok people I am out
[jza_] need to catch up with Ian
[khirano] thanks for good presentation!
[jza_] oh.. and Christian Einfield also travel a lot
[khirano] greetings to Ian
[jza_] :)
[jza_] bye